Dynamic ancillary bundles: Closing the merchandising gap

Lisa: All right. Good morning. Hope everyone's doing well. It's great to have you here. We are going to talk about ancillary bundles today.  

I'm Lisa Kos from ATPCO and joining me on our panel, we have Gianni Cataldo from Accelya. Gianni, thanks for being here. We have Judy Yu from Concur, Judy, and Marcial Lapp from American.  

Marcial: Nice to be here.  

Lisa: Awesome. All right, So before we dive in, we're going to talk a little bit about what bundles are. So just a few quick slides.  

What are bundles? So we're talking about ancillaries that could be sold standing alone. So a standalone ancillary. We could have ancillaries that are grouped together or we could have a modified brand or we could have maybe a customized name to that brand. So bundles for us means kind of a range of different things.  

And when we're talking about ensuring that bundles are merchandised as well as they can be, here's a quick image of maybe what a bundle looks like today. You see a bundle name and you see a few different descriptors of what's in that bundle. What we'd like to focus on is how bundles could be merchandised to the fullest extent. So you can see there's visuals, there's attributes about what the flight shopper will get in that bundle, really helping to sell that bundle more effectively.  

And so today with the panel, we wanted to talk a little bit about why bundles are so challenging and what's really happening in the market today. So that's why this distribution chain is so important. So from the tech provider to the airline, to the tech provider, to the distributor, to the sales channel, everyone needs to be working together to really bring these bundles to life.  

So I'm very excited to have our panel here. So we're just going to get started with some questions and have a great discussion. So the reality is that it really takes a village or the entire distribution chain to really sell bundles. The industry hasn't really been set up to do this, so it's a little challenging. So even though the airlines want to do it, the distribution chain is so important.  

So to get started, we wanted to just ask what would be in your own personalized perfect bundle. So maybe, Gianni, you'd like to start?  

Gianni: OK, if I could make my own personalized bundle, one of the things I like to do when I'm travelling is as soon as I'm done, especially with corporate travel, is get home quick. So I'd like a "get home quick" bundle. So if I'm in Europe, I just want to be able to finish my meetings at 4:00 and I know there's always a flight that will get me to JFK. I can stay overnight in JFK and then get back 8 hours quicker than if I'd stayed the night in Europe. I know those exist. I can never get them to surface. OK, so if I could get somebody who could go, Oh yeah, I can put you there and maybe add you with a little hotel overnight in the TWA, that would be really sweet. A nice personalized, quick trip home bundle.  

Lisa: OK, Judy, what about you?  

Judy: OK. All right. I'm going to answer this as someone who lived the corporate travel life for years and I think road warriors in this one will be related. OK, so I'm Monday morning short haul weekly trip warrior. I travel from Washington, DC, to Atlanta, New York, Chicago and back all the time. So my perfect bundle should have higher actual legroom forward cabin seat, not the first class. My company policy doesn't allow it in short haul, but I need to get out of the plane fast to make my meeting in 90 minutes. And second the bundle must have reliable and fast Wi-Fi because that 2-hour flight might be my last chance to finish my presentation which I should have already got done yesterday. And third I need a change flexibility because the truth about the corporate travel is the meetings might be cancelled, the meeting might run long. The customer changed their mind. Then if I cannot move to any earlier and the later flight, I'm stuck, right? And the last is the personal one. Give me a priority security level. Right? Save me 30 minutes. Not standing in the long line is worth more than anything else you could put in a bundle. And that's the thing. This bundle, I believe that doesn't exist today as a standard product because that's my bundle, right? That's based on my trip purpose, my preference, my company's policy program, and I think that's exactly the point of dynamic and personalized bundle.  

Lisa: Absolutely. That's a good list, Judy. And Marcial, what about you?  

Marcial: Sure. And by the way, Judy, you hit on a bunch of really good points because I think if I look at Gianni and what Judy came back with, if you think about the common theme between both of you, it's all about efficiency. Everybody was talking about efficiency and trip purpose, right? And so maybe I'm going to diverge a little bit, but it's still kind of the cornerstone of efficiency.  

But back to trip purpose. So I'll give you two. When I travel for leisure, I have very different needs of efficiency than when I travel for business. Let me give you an example. Many of you that are familiar with me, I have a life situation. My life situation involves four children plus my wife and  so the efficiency there is a little bit different. For example, previous travel experience where all of us were trying to get to visit the in laws in Phoenix, AZ, and it was a sort of not the best day for the airline. We had some IROPS, etcetera, etcetera. And sure enough, we were on a flight on the standby trying to get there. We have six people in our party. And of course I go to the gate and just say, hey, by the way, is there any chance you can seat us together? Right. And the agent just looked at me and goes, I'm going to give it my best shot. But imagine trying to get 6 people together. By the way, I also have needs because by the way, I have two infants. Infants need to sit by a window. That's a requirement. All these weird little situations, right? So my point is when you are trying to create something for the leisure customer, I would prefer things like, hey, by the way, automatic family seating. We have things that American called blocks for certain customer types because of accessibility, etcetera, etcetera. So are there ways that we can actually create things that say, hey, by the way, we know you're a party of six. We have things kind of ready to go for you when either you're booking or post booking that that we take care of you for. Again, the needs that you have which are going to be different.  

I would say I'm probably the least qualified to talk about a, call it a business travel bundle because my business travel is obviously very different, right? You work for an airline, you just go in the system, you create your booking and it's done, right. But what I will say, and I think Judy, you hit on this really well, is the ideal bundle for me as an airline is to create something that for the customer, in this case the corporate customer, is the right bundle within policy. And I can communicate it to say, hey, by the way, this is a better thing for you. And so like I said, I think that that's really a problem that we want to go solve. And really big shout out by the way to all of you guys because I know we're kind of sitting maybe not in the right order of airline, tech provider, OBT, but this is really the value chain of we can only make this work if all of us are kind of working together. So.  

Lisa: Exactly. Very nicely said, Marcial. Very nicely said. And I think the willingness for flight shoppers to buy these bundles is extremely high if you get the right bundle to the right customer. So there's a huge opportunity for bundles and these foundational elements and being able to market them and merchandise them is key.  

So why are bundles such a big deal? And I think you were starting to touch on that a little bit, Marcial, but from the airline perspective, maybe you can kick that question off.  

Marcial: Yeah. And I'll, So, so why are, why are bundles important? I think this morning we heard from Brigit at Priceline, right. And by the way, she, she echoed the theme that I think all of us are kind of portraying in this business, which is we do see customers' willingness to pay for different products and services sort of expand in the things that they're willing to pay for, right? And so if you kind of rewind the clock, we as airlines, we created first class and economy and we said, hey, there's some people that are willing to pay for this and some people willing to pay for this. And that was a great kind of segmentation opportunity. We keep evolving that segmentation because rather than sort of having two classes of service or maybe three if you count premium economy is, even within those, there are these micro segments that are really about trying to understand what other things matter to you that maybe don't matter to Judy and vice versa. And so for us being able to kind of capitalize on it because we do see this.  

So I'll give you a very tangible example. At American, we introduced a bundle product in economy called Main Plus. And all it was is a bundle that includes a main cabin, right to fly, along with what we call a main cabin extra seat at American. That means you get a little bit more pitch, a good space to work, right? And you get a bag. And we said, hey, by the way, this is a great bundle for our leisure customers because by the way, they have a bag, extra legroom seat for maybe the longer flights, right? And what do we see? And what we saw is corporate customers buying this. And we said, guys like we did something wrong here because somehow we created this, but our corporate customers are buying this. And the lesson learned is when you go back and you say, well, there are some corporate customers that within policy can buy an extra legroom seat because we're not selling it as an ancillary, but it's part of the bundle. And we have corporate customers that check a bag, right? And you say, well, who are those? Because I think we think of the corporate customer being the road warrior, the person that travels Monday comes back Thursday, only coach with the carry on, right. But by the way, we have plenty of corporate customers that come do conferences, they bring products, they need to check a bag, right. And so it was a great sort of, like not what we intended to happen, but you learn a whole bunch of things about your customers, your customer base, their trip purpose and the fact that even within the corporate segment, there are more micro segments that we need to go try to target, right?  

Absolutely. And so what we're trying to do is create these segmentation opportunities. But at the same time, I also can't show you an array of 20 things and say, please choose. First, I think Judy's going to say, I'm not going to display all those things in Concur. Maybe we'll talk later. And but in all seriousness, right, like the idea is to say, let's figure out what matters to that corporate customer the most and then try to tailor our offer. And that's maybe a little bit more the end state vision. We're going to try to figure out how to get there. But that's really why we see this as such an important initiative because again, we have customers that have  different willingness to pay for all the things that we're able to offer.  

Lisa: Absolutely. Really great points. Judy, from your perspective, what do you think?  

Judy: About yeah, I want to build on top what Marcial just said, but reframe from the corporate travel perspective because I think this is where the opportunity is enormous, but still largely untapped.  

First, I think that a bundle reconnect the shopping experience with what actually the corporate traveller needs. So in the airline, I'm pretty sure you want to sell the right product to the right customers. And we want the same thing from the booking perspective. In managing the travel program, we are always trying to balance between the travellers' satisfaction, the policy compliance, and the cost to control. So aware the construction, the bundle actually led the traveller to pick the right product, right, not just cheapest fare, but meet the travellers' need and still stay within the policy. And that's, to be real, like a road warrior, right? They don't want the comparison shopping of a six add-ons at 10:00 at night before an 8 am flight. They want to book, move on, right. So a good bundle respects that. And I think that the good bundle basically says, we already figured out what do you need for this trip.  

And the second, I think the bundle actually unlocks a smarter way for corporate policy, travel policy design. So instead of some, blunt travel policy rule, which is the famous book of the lowest logical fare. Now, the program can say is you are allowed for a bundle tier with flexibility, actual Wi-Fi on routes over 4 hours. And that's more nuanced and employee friendly approach because the traveller will think now, OK, the policy is working for me now, not against me, right?  

And finally, I think that, and this is exciting and the most is the dynamic bundle will enable the true personalization, right? Imagine a bundle at the booking time, who factors in who the traveller is, right? Again, the trip purpose, the travellers, the loyalty status, right, the preference and also the company's negotiated agreements with airlines. Now you're not just offering some generic products, a lot of generic products to the customers. You offer something genuinely relevant to the individual on that trip and also under the company's travel program. And I think that's the real value unlocks. We unlock real values for airlines, cooperation, and for the travelers.  

Marcial: By the way, I'm just going to add on real quick to this because it's a really valid point. The travel policy needs to evolve. Yeah, right. Because I think exactly to your point about lowest logical.  

Judy: Been there, yes.  

Marcial: Exactly. And so as we think about this, this can only work if we bring kind of the travel managers at the various corporates, unmanaged corporates along agency perspective as well and sort of say, hey, guys, like we've had this, we want to evolve and help us evolve with us.  

Judy: Right.  

Lisa: Absolutely, and it's also nice to offer something that maybe the flight shopper or the traveller wants to add on, even if it's out of policy. So giving those options is nice. Gianni.  

Gianni: Yes. Oh, well, all we have to do is just make it happen. So that's the easy piece. And as we know, we don't even need conversations around standards and how the world's evolving to make that happen because we just take all the bits and it happens.  

So stepping back from a little thinking about the construction of this right, in today's world, we have to live with the existing formats, the fares that are filed. We need to be able to correlate those with some form of merchandising capability that describes this add-on product, the ability to be able to couple that where it makes sense.  

Combine that all. Is that an opaquely priced product or is it a single price? Is that inventory call-ups required? Do I need to be able to assess if a particular seat is available? Combine all that, make it presentable to a payment system, make it presentable to an offer order system, make sure downstream accounting can account for that.  

And then there's going to be disruption and so that product may rely on a main cabin extra seat. And one configuration I have 20 of those. In the next configuration, I have 12. So now I have an inventory scarcity. What do I do in that scenario? I have a customer may want to refund that. Is it opaquely priced and presented as a single EMD? Is it multiple EMDs?  

So the job we have to do is try and bring some common sense to bring all that together, right? And over the years at Accelya, we've tried to bring that together and we've done bundles maybe 3 or 4 different ways based on individual airlines asks and needs, right?  

What we're getting excited about is what we're seeing the product catalog. The ability to present a common language and how this can all come together, right? Definition that's clean. Assembly instructions that make sense and the ability to orientate it to stock so that we can actually fulfill the promise that makes both parties be able to operate. From Judy's perspective, she wants to be able to consume in a way that makes sense.  

You know, it's really this different levels of complexity. We have to present this to a direct channel.com you can you can find a way to make a bundle happen, right, ensuring it's presented consistently in NDC, just choose an NDC version, right? And then I have to make it work for a GDS channel. Then we have to crack the problem of interline, right. So this is where we're headed to. You know, there's a lot of focus in the industry where we're going to, we're excited to get involved in these programs.  

But the key piece in all of this is interoperability, separation of product from price, and the ability to kind of like present something unified to the industry that says here's the road map to make this happen. We can deal with the complexity behind the scenes, but finding a way to do this at scale because as you asked about doing this dynamically, we've been trying to do static bundles for different airlines for a number of years. They all come together somehow. You go to that next level of dynamic and you think about a corporate who has a specific deal who wants to say, hey, American, I have a policy here and I really would like this bundle. My willingness to pay for this bundle is this to stay in policy. Can you help me do that? That's where we want to get to. Have that assembly be done dynamically rather than being fixed.  

Lisa: So with where we are today, Gianni, with these challenges, what do you think is the most complex or challenging part from your perspective?  

Gianni: It's truly unified definition, right? If I'm talking about a flight product, a seat, and that seat has various attributes and needs, and the ability to combine all those with other ancillary components, flexibility restrictions, basically, what are my entitlements, right? And how do those entitlements layer on top of entitlements I have from loyalty and restrictions I have from my policy? Bringing all that, you need a common framework language.  

Lisa: Absolutely.  

Gianni: To bring that together. So that's a big piece. Separate to that, is this a single accountable document? Is this multiple accountable documents? Can I break this part, bring this together? That's just a pattern there. And each airline has to just decide the direction they're going to go in. You can do this multiple ways, but ultimately how is it going to be accounted for, priced, presented, managed, changed. So again, I think it's a big opportunity here for the industry and we're all working together on this is taking this concept of product catalog that next step and ironing this out into reality that make that's scalable across the industry.  

Lisa: Absolutely. Marcial, I was going to ask you what, from your perspective, what's the most challenging part of bundles? And you can say Gianni if you'd like to.  

Gianni: I was just listening to all the things Gianni just said. Well, the way you just explained it feels very daunting and I'm kind of tired so but I guess what I'm trying to reflect on is, there is the message to your revenue management sales teams that's like, guys, well. We're working on a better solution, but we also can't be static and say, well, we'll just wait until that time comes, right. And so, there is the commercial pressure of delivering revenue, being able to do some of the put these ideas in motion all at the same time that we're still kind of in, I'm going to say these dual worlds of compatibility or maybe it's more than just two, but it's multiple worlds where we have to try our best to be able to distribute these products, these bundles, and some channels will be, I'll say, be able to consume this information in a more rich, more tech-forward way.  

But at the end of the day, I think the colleague from Delta said it, we have to meet our customers where they want to be met, right? And that's a principle we share. And so therefore, what we're trying to do is do both. Is to say well at the same time, push forward into what is the art of the possible, but also not wait until that time comes, but rather say, hey, what can we do with things like fare branding today? How can we integrate Routehappy solutions better into our content distribution and so on?  

Because we have tools at our disposal that are, you know, I call this classic airline, which is we take tools, we bend them to things that kind of weren't designed to go do, but we make it work. Creates tech debt on the on the backside, but it allows us to kind of move ahead. And as long as you have the attitude of like, hey, as long as we're making progress, that's good. We can show that this is what our customers want because they do buy it, right? That's your ultimate proof point that this works is sales, right? Then then you can feel good about the road and the path that you're on.  

Lisa: Absolutely. Very well said. Judy, from your perspective, it's not hard at all, right? So tell us a little bit more about what you think is the most challenging part.  

Judy: Well, I want to be honest why this has been so hard and especially in corporate travel and I see four challenges. OK. The first one, I think we have plumbing challenges because in the corporate travel ecosystem we have an incredibly long value chain from the airlines, GDS, tech providers to aggregator to OBT, then TMCs, the middle office, the back office expense, the duty of the gap, So very long chain over there. And when the bundle hits Concur, we don't just display that, we apply the policy to evaluate it. We route it to for approval, right, ticketing and handle exchange cancellation. TMCS needs to service it, need to reconcile on expense and also need to report on that. And every step is in the different system. So you got to make sure this end-to-end chain support bundle, not just one link.  

And the second I see the normalization challenges because the corporate travellers, they need to compare the bundles across multiple airlines and then you do it very quick. Then the travel manager, they need to set up those policy rules to provide the right bundle to their travellers. But still control the cost.  

Concur, we serve hundreds of airlines. We simply cannot build a customer logic to display the policy evaluation to cover every airline's unique bundle structures. So the thing is, the question for us is, how do you present one airline's bundle alongside with another airline's bundle,  in a comparable and a policy evaluable way. So that normalization challenge is massive.  

And the third, I think we have a standardization challenge. NDC definitely is the right path. Concur has enabled NDC with 18 airlines and we process millions of NDC bookings. We do want to sell rich bundles through NDC, but we need a standardized way to request, receive, render, and the present, like so if every airline requests back end implementation, I don't think it will be scaled and it will slow down NDC.  

And finally, I think if the personalization challenges even goes deeper, we just talked about this dynamic and the personalized the bundle require the context, right? Who the traveller is, the travellers, the trip purpose, the preference, loyalty standards, the company's travel policy program. Those data is at our side, but how do we share with airline in a standardized and the privacy compliant way so airline can return the right offer. So I think of that, that exchange problem stream.  

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely, Judy. All right. So let's shift a little bit into what we're doing to kind of get bundles out into the market and to be merchandised effectively. So Marcial, you and I sat here almost a year ago and talked a little bit about bundles. And what's exciting right now is that we're actively working with this distribution chain and everyone's involved really trying to bring these bundles to life and move it forward. We're not quite where everything's dynamic, right, Judy, but we're moving forward. So there's an actual solution involved of Routehappy has a solution, enriched bundles, that we're working with Accelya, we're talking about exchanging through product catalog data to get it to Routehappy to be able to effectively merchandise the bundles, the different ancillaries for someone like Judy at Concur, etcetera.  

So let's talk a little bit more at each of the orgs. What's happening right now for the solution and what's going forward? Like what are you focused on at your respective orgs? Marcial, I think, pretty clear you're working on bundles, but what's going on and where does that move into?  

Marcial: Sure. And maybe I'll kind of just piggyback on my answer before, which was sort of like your half space here, half space there, because yes, do we have purely dynamic bundles? Definitely not. I think Gianni's still working on the solution for me on that one.  

Gianni: Get that.  

Marcial: So until we have that, we are still working within the kind of, call it the ecosystem that we have today, which includes fare branding, etcetera. And then like you said, working with enriching the content. Maybe one other thing is, listening to a lot of the panels over the last couple of days and the speakers, there's a lot of conversation about standardization.  

And maybe I'll take a little bit of a contrarian view on this because I think it's important. It's like, I think there is this fear that standardization boxes you into, like my product needs to line up with Delta's product and United's product and so on. And so therefore it's easily comparable, right. But I think what we've all seen over the past, I don't know, call it a few years, is we're all diverging in the sense of, yes, we still have an entry right to fly kind of product. But after that, we are all seeing different opportunities of how we will merchandise the services, the ancillary services that we as American offer. They're different than my competitors. And so I think that the word standardization is all about, I almost called it the messaging protocol, right? I'm saying, hey, by the way, this is how you're going to, this is how you will access my content. For example, It doesn't mean that my content line by line will match what Delta or other competitors have, but that at least the messaging format is the same.  

And then yes, you can still figure out how to go and, and display the content from a UI perspective. Or by the way, it's been 30 minutes. We haven't used the word AI yet. Is somebody else can go consume it, whether that is my favorite LLM or who knows what, right? And so to me, standardization is about messaging, not product standardization. I think it's really big difference there. And so that's, like I said, that's what we're thinking through as we're in this current space, thinking about how that's going to evolve going forward.  

Lisa: Great to hear. Gianni, let's go to you.  

Gianni: Sure, and I like the discussion on standards and we reflect on this and I find it super interesting, right? If I was to look at the audience today and say, hey, if you got an availability response from American or United or Delta or Lufthansa and it said A5, you all know what that means, right? Deeply discounted first class A5, right. Tomorrow when we were in this world, I'm going to be presenting back from American, hey, here's the disposition of the schedule, the disposition of the aircraft, seats taken and products that I'm willing to make available to you to set.  

So I'm going beyond the concept of just saying schedules, availability, go price. I'm saying to you, schedules, product applicability, what's right for you. You as the corporate, you as a consumer, make the right choice and make the discrete request back to American to say, hey, these are the things in the bundles I want you to go price on my behalf, right? I may even be willing to tell you how much I'm willing to pay for some of those or you can determine that.  

So to your point, Marcial, I cannot even envisage how this becomes commoditized because we're just opening this up so widely from, for a fairly constrained way that we have to present offers today to a world where I have a product catalog definition that each element of that product catalog has maybe 50-60 different variants. So quickly I can span across and start creating some really interesting experiences to kind of differentiate how I merchandise and present my things.  

Quick challenge for Judy is to unify all of that across different airlines, but there's going to be ways and mechanisms to do that. So yeah, I'm pretty excited about it, I can see this opportunity coming in the short term, right? Because these technologies can overlay and you can still have one foot in EDIFACT, one foot in modern airline retailing and make this happen.  

Lisa: And Gianni, just to follow up with product catalog and the exchange of product catalogs would be key, right, to be able to facilitate this in the market.  

Gianni: Yeah, so that's something we can't lose sight of, right? We are in JV's, we are in interlines, right? How does that work? ATPCO pioneered years ago I fly bags, right? The ability to present baggage change and fees. Remember that was a big problem like years ago? This is where we're headed to now, product catalog. The product catalog is that same interchange from that. The opportunity here is for ATPCO to be the hub to present these diverse products out to the market.  

Lisa: Thanks, Gianni. Judy, so from your perspective, how is it working at Concur?  

Judy: Yeah. So just want to echo what Marcial and Gianni said. And I totally agree that airlines absolutely should differentiate your bundles. And the differentiation is the inside, what do you offer to the traveller, but not the messaging. As you just said.  

From channel perspective, we need there's a consistent way to receive, render, and present the regardless of the airline, regardless of distribution channels. So I think that's exactly what ATPCO product catalog and Routehappy enrichment give us. We participant, our participants, some offer those bundled POCs right, with Routehappy and we see Routehappy normalizes those airlines of variants of bundle data into a consistent format. Through one standard API. So Concur can consume it one way across many airlines instead of we building the customer logic for each.  

And that also means now the corporate traveller can really compare the bundles across airlines in a way that makes sense, right? That not just to say the bundle name differences. Now they know what is in it, what is different, and what I'm paying for that price. And back to the travel managers side. Now they can use the standardized bundle data to write the real policy rule, right? They can ensure OK, this bundle in policy, that one isn't and they can set up this carrier around the cost, but still provide their travellers the right service level. And I think that changed the game in managing the travel program.  

And last thing I want to say is, if any airline build some bundles with corporate travellers in mind. Concur. We want to be the first in line to sell it! All right. We are not picky. We take them all.  

Marcial: That's great. Sign me up.  

Lisa: Well, we're almost running down the clock here, so we have just a wrap up question. There's a lot of momentum between last year and this year. And so just final thoughts on kind of where we're going to be next year or how this year is going to play out, or what's on your wish list for bundles. So, Marcial, why don't we start with you?  

Marcial: I'll. What Judy just said, we're going to really push hard on the pedal here to get better at upsell products, whether that is taking our existing products and optimizing them, whether we're going to be introducing some new ones. You may, you will likely see some changes there from American over the next year and we're super excited about it so.  

Lisa: That's great. Thanks, Marcial. Gianni, let's go to you and then we're going to Judy.  

Gianni: Yeah, the rails are pretty much in place, right? We're ready to go. Once we've enabled that rail in place and we have all the steps defined. So you can do the serviceability, the management, the accounting, we just open it up right and then let these two parties exchange and try and make these bundles come together.  

Lisa: That's great, Gianni. And Judy?  

Judy: I want to say that the ATPCO product catalog is setting the foundation, the standardized, the bundle that is going to make, what are we talk about today possible, the comparison policy valuation, the scale. But if I look ahead, the exciting part is, I think the foundation, the same foundation will become the runway for a trustworthy agentic AI. Yeah, imagine at the you know, a booking agent who understand the travellers, the travel purpose, preference, loyalty standards, company travel program and at the real time negotiate with airline system right to find the right to personalize a bundle. So I think it's the new normal in the future will be the offer finds that the traveler, not the other way around.  

Lisa: I think that's a very nice way to put it. And I think just taking a moment to thank our panelists, but to think about how hard it is to get things done in this industry and to have the partnership with everyone here, working with you all, the exchange, a product catalogs to come to be able to get the bundles that ATPCO doesn't traditionally have to be able to merchandise them when somebody like Judy comes a-calling, it really takes the entire industry to work together. And I think it's going to be a really exciting year for bundles.  

So if you have any questions about bundles, there are folks with stickers, so ask them about the bundles. And there are some breakouts this afternoon on bundles, so I hope you're able to attend. So thank you all for being here, and thank you so much to our panelists.  

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