The dynamic offer journey: Airlines in action

Melanie: All right, everyone, thank you for joining us at our dynamic offers panel. I'm joined today by Marcello, Kevin, and Harald and they're here to talk about the real-world paths to dynamic offers. Before we get started, I'd like to ask each of you to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about your role and I'll start with you, Marcello.  

Marcello: Hi, my name is Marcello Arcucci-Dedina. I'm Director of Pricing and Revenue Management Solutions for Delta. What that means is that I lead a team who is responsible for fare filing, but also building the tools and the reports that they are using, automation, pricing, distribution, a few other things that are still being made clear to me occasionally.  

Kevin: Kevin Strohmeyer. I'm responsible for manufactured revenue, product distribution, and revenue planning. In manufactured revenue, I look after everything that's non-organic revenue. So we've tried to separate the traditional ASMs and RPM driven revenue from branded fares, ancillaries and incremental revenues.  

Harald: Hello, I'm Harald. Harald Heichele. I'm working for the Lufthansa Group since, yeah, the last century. I started my career in network planning, but very fast moved on to the pricing side where I was heading, or not heading, I was working in pricing as a pricing analyst for a long time. And then I had the chance to move on to Lufthansa Process Management, an independent fare filing company in the Lufthansa Group. And ever since then, I'm heading various teams for fare filing in Germany, Slovakia, and we have also some great partners in India that support us with that job. So my perspective that I can bring into this is from the fare filing view and how things are implemented with various airlines.

Melanie: Thank you and welcome. And I'm going to go ahead and take a break or a moment before we get started and just let you know that time permitting, we are going to be taking questions from the audience. If you have any questions you'd like to submit to the panel, you can do that through the app. You just need to be signed into the app. Select this session, the dynamic offers panel, and there'll be a button there for you to push where you can submit your questions. And then we'll get to those at the end. I'll get to as many as we have time for at the end.  

All right. Before we kick off, I want to talk about our dynamic offers capability matrix, which is on the screen now. And this is something many of you have maybe seen before. ATPCO uses this to illustrate the capabilities an airline might have as it takes its path to dynamic offers.  

Beginning at that lower left quadrant where you have static products, static prices and moving up the matrix to that top right quadrant where we have fully continuous offers. And ATPCO has organize various mechanisms into three distinct categories of capabilities that might be used as you move across the matrix. We start with optimized offers, which apply to that bottom section of the matrix where an airline may be using current filed data, but might be optimizing it by putting my price points in the market or better differentiating products. As they move up the matrix. They may be adjusting their offers, they may be applying continuous pricing to filed fare data. They may be making product adjustments. And as they move to that top right corner,  they will want to have in place the science that we discussed yesterday to help feed their dynamic pricing engines and feed their offer engines. And they'll have a product catalog in place at that time.  

So the three capabilities as they move up the matrix, we know that each airline will take its own path. It will make its own journey based on its own capabilities and requirements as it moves across the matrix. We know that airlines will live in different quadrants within their own airline. They may be feeding different processes or different market segments where they need to live in different quadrants.  

We know that airlines will live in different quadrants than their interline partners and they'll need to maintain interoperability as they each make their journey based on their own capabilities. So today during this panel we want to talk about some real-world journeys to dynamic offers and movements that that our airline customers are making on this journey.  

With that said, we will kick off our panel and I want to start with the current capabilities. How you are maximizing your current capabilities to get you started on dynamic offers. And by current capabilities, I mean are you putting more price points in the market with dual RBD? Or are you using API connectivity to increase the frequency of updates, to add more price points, to provide better granularity to your data? Are you using positional match, for example, to better optimize your product differentiation?  

And I'll start with you, Kevin, could you please tell us what current capabilities are you maximizing on your journey?  

Kevin: So we're using continuous pricing to adjust prices. We're using positional match to expand our branded fare products and ease the coding that we have in that place. And we're increasingly starting to look at what customers are seeing on our website to reset our fares for ancillaries and brands and try to come up with optimized pricing there using more machine learning. And then that all builds off top of the original continuous pricing and the right to fly in that space.  

Melanie: Thank you. And how about you, Marcello? What current capabilities are you maximizing?  

Marcello: I think it's fair to say we're definitely maximizing some of the capabilities of ATPCO. We are, dual RBD is a big thing for us. It's very important because it allows us to better price and have granularity in our branded products, right as we're trying to have all those premium products and experiences. The dual RBD helps us optimize and have that extra price point that we could do.  

We also, I think you know, we are also big believer in positional match. Positional match has been great for the industry. I think it's allowed us to be a lot more granular, to have a lot of more options, but it's also allowed automation. And so that's allowing us to be able to create more offers, more price points that are going to create that right segmentation for the customer.  

Melanie: Right. Thank you. And Harald, as the voice of your customers, can you share what you're seeing or your observations on how your customers are using?  

Harald: Yes, we have observed that there's a huge growth in price points and filed price points out in the industry. All our customers increase it and there's various methods on that increase. Of course, specified fares, the traditional way that we know is the most common one and the most obvious one. And we see a huge increase over, a constant increase and all that.  

But we also see Cat 25 being a very powerful source to generate additional price points, but it comes at a price of complexity and a lot of coding effort for that. And that's where we have seen it's declining again after peak, after Corona, we see that the Cat 25 categories are not growing that much anymore. My theory is that less granularity in generating price points in a more generic way or on doing that. Yeah, some of our customers use dual RBDs. That's common practice out there, but most of our customers use the positional matching and being able to have easily distributed different brands in the system and addressing them with positional matching brings the workload to the fare record level and you don't have to do that workload on the rule level anymore.  

Melanie: Great, thank you. And I do just. talking about positional match, I just want to give a quick shout out to Delta too, because you did pioneer that solution for the industry and I think it is has widespread usage now and providing that you know optimizing at the product level even under current capabilities. So we have to give you a shout out for that. Thank you.  

Marcello: It wasn't me personally. But you're welcome. Yeah, we think positional match has just given so many more options in what we could do with the taxonomy in the current capabilities. It's just from an automation perspective, I think that's the biggest impact. The ability to have much cleaner automation has been that we can have more price points because we can manage them, which was a lot harder to do when you didn't have those options. So that's why we pushed for that.  

Melanie: Thank you for that. All right, let's move on to expanding or building on top of the current capabilities because that's really where we're all trying to get to offer more continuous prices, to offer more dynamic products in the market. And we know that the separation of product from price is critical as a foundation as we move forward. But I want to just talk about the price piece right now.  

So Kevin, you've mentioned and I know we've heard, we've heard from many airlines in the news today that they're offering continuous pricing. They're able to determine the optimal price at time of shopping and adjust a filed fare, if you will, at time of shopping to better serve the customer. So can you talk about what mechanisms you're using to support continuous pricing? And I'll come back to you, Marcello, can you talk about that a little bit?  

Marcello: Can I? Maybe, no, I think it's fair to say that across the industry, we're moving in that direction. And I think every airline's going to have slightly different mechanisms on that. They want to implement it and some of it we won't share.

I think one thing that's important to remember, especially when we communicate about this and we learned a little bit about this when we talked about AI, is that when we say adjusting the price points at the time of shopping, it's a statement that we in the industry understand. But we also have to think about how does that statement play externally. And that doesn't mean adjusting the price point for this customer individually based on information about them. It means optimizing based on the information we have on demand and willingness to pay in general, but that we have to be thoughtful that customer trust is an important part of our business and we don't want to create the perception and we have to manage through that, that there is something we're doing that's just specific to you because we know about you now. People think we do it already. I'm sure all of your friends talk to you about how they know that we price based on their cookies and that's, why we said the price we did, and we don't do that. But we do have to be thoughtful about that, I mean, and making sure that whatever mechanisms we employ, they are driven by demand and wanting to optimize and provide granularly, but not by the individual information of the customer.  

Melanie: Yeah. Good point. And Kevin, I'll come to you then. Can you share a little bit about mechanisms you're using for continuous pricing?  

Kevin: So we see it as an inefficiency. 26 letters on a price ladder. It just leaves too many gaps. If you explain to a customer that gas could only go up by 5 cent increments, they would tell you you're crazy. So for us, continuous pricing is just a logical extension that allows us to actually offer more price points to customers, not less. And we're doubling down on that. We're going to extend it into our brand pricing, our ancillary pricing, and just try to get as granular as we can so we can match the best price to the best customer, which we're all trying to do. We're just doing it inefficiently without continuous pricing.  

Melanie: OK. And I'll come to you, Harald, can you give us any observations on what you've seen with airlines using continuous pricing?  

Harald: We have seen it in a couple places and what we have noticed that that's usually a dynamic adjustment of a price that is generated in a traditional way with the traditional fare quote and then adjusted to the needs of of the pricing. This of course it's supported by this huge number of price points that you have now in the systems with dual RBDa and the variety of products that you serve. So this is the driver to have a basis of already not only 26 prices, but many more of them and but still then the pricing side adjust these final results and make it dynamic.  

Melanie: So I think we understand that the, we see the benefits of the value of moving forward, the continuous pricing. And Marcello, you mentioned one of the challenges of customer perception. Are there any other challenges that you've faced and is there any way or anything that ATPCO could do to help that? Do you see any value in some industry solutions to help progress this?  

Marcello: I think one of the top challenges that we face is how do you distribute your products effectively and consistently across customers' channel of choice, because we believe in channel of choice. And there's a lot of things you could do internally.  

But where I think companies like ATPCO and ATPCO specifically can help is having some frameworks and having some modular tools that can be used. Things like product catalog, things like the tax engine, things that you can build into your strategies and build into your mechanics so that you have that consistency in the offering and that maintains trust.  

Melanie: Thank you. And Kevin, can you share with us any challenges you've seen or are there ways where ATPCO could help progress the solution with an industry?  

Kevin: Two big challenges. One is continuous pricing with your partners and interline. It doesn't work and it causes us, our customers, a lot of confusion.  

And then the second challenge is really around shopping versus booking. In the traditional channels, those always equal each other. We're struggling, and I'm sure many airlines are, with the idea that somebody shops one price and then tries to book it and it's not the exact same in the other system. So some synergies between those two places would be helpful.  

Melanie: OK, great. Thank you. So let's talk about products a little bit about dynamic product offerings or adjusting product offerings or making adjustments to static bundles, for example, and adding products to a static brand. Have you explored dynamic product offering? And I'll go to you again, Marcello.  
Marcello: Look, we've big believers in offer granularity and having more options. So of course, we're exploring all these options with dynamic product offering. I think it ties back again to trust because there's that element of all products have to be understandable by a customer. So you have a balancing act between how do I dynamically create bundles that are going to be different, but also how do I have a core offering that the customer can understand and can expect and can trust and know that it's coming and know that they're going to get a consistent experience, right? So it's a balancing act. You want some customization, but there's also the importance of having core products and experiences that customers can have. How to keep that trust with the customers? We care about that.  

Melanie: Yes. And Kevin, have you explored dynamic product offerings or dynamic bundling in products?

Kevin: We're going in a bit of a different direction. So we traditionally have had five brands in our economy cabin and it's realistically too many. It's too confusing for customers, but it's the best suite of products we have across the whole network. So we're increasingly looking at offering maybe 6 or 7 brands slash bundles and putting the right three or four in the market, depending on which market suits which brand to try to get some optimization there. So eventually, we'll move into dynamic created bundles when we go down further in the journey. But right now we see opportunities in just getting the right brand or bundle in front of the right customer at the right time.  

Melanie: Great. Thank you. All right, I want to move on to fare filing. So we hear that fare filing is going away. So there's a lot of noise we hear in the industry that fare filing is going away. But the reality that we see is that the fare volumes are increasing and they continue to increase year over year. So what we want to try to understand is what do you see as the future of fare filing? Is it going away? Does it need to evolve? Does dynamic pricing and fare filing need to coexist? And I'm going to start with you, Harald, can you give us some of your observations on fare filing and what is its future?  

Harald: Yeah, that's a good question to a person who spent most of his life optimizing the fare filing process and bringing it to high levels of quality and speed and efficiency. And I was asking the question to myself, what will the future look like?  

And I think fare filing will be around for a long, long time because I believe there's a value of a filed fare beyond just selling a price to a customer. It has various functions in in the marketplace where I would say for some certain time, you have to have parallel activities in the old world and in the new world. So that's when you still need it. It's the foundation for dynamic prices. You can adjust them, you can use them, and the more you have the better you can adjust the prices to that.  

But also I believe the price points are a good handover between the inventory-driven optimization of the network of the revenue and the sales-driven perspective of what do you want to sell to that individual customer. And if you have certain base levels for that interaction, I think that serves a certain purpose. That's some old fashioned things like government approval. Some governments still want to see the fares and for them it will be still around.  

And it's also, I would say a communication tool to the marketplace to offer to send your offer to the market to see what is out there. And your partners and the whole industry can pick up on that and build their reactions with that. And I think that's also a certain value that comes with a certain number of filed fares in the market or fare ranges. Let's put it this way.  

So to sum it up, fare filing will not go away, but it will change. It will change from the current way of mass production. You're filing thousands, millions of fares in one day and rule sequences and all the conditions they change. And it will change from this mass production where quality and speed is important. It goes to more consulting thing where you decide where you support on how do things need to be implemented in the technical world so that the dynamic engines can then pick up on the rules catalog items and include them into the dynamic pricing world. So fare filing will develop to offer data management I would say.  

Melanie: All right. How about you, Kevin? What do you see as the future of fare filing?  

Kevin: I think fare filing stays. I think we have to remember the fare is a contract between the airline and the customer and it's just a really efficient way to tell a customer what their rights are and what our rights are. And then the servicing aspect, automation, repricing, servicing a customer, maybe they'll be less fares, but I think that core technology that allows customers to reprice and change their ticket to another flight and look after both the interests of the customer and the airline, is something that we continue to need.  

Melanie: Marcello, do you see a future in fare filing? Does it evolve? Does it go away?  

Marcello: I think each carrier is going to have to decide on their distribution strategy independently,  So I don't think there's going to be a one-size-fits-all solution on term of how much is filed, what is filed. Fare filing, ticketing, all of those industry standards are still and will be at least for some time and maybe forever necessary components, especially when it comes to interoperability and partners and being able to distribute and service, servicing is a big pain point for everyone. And so I think there's a part of that.  

But what we know is that things will have to change and evolve. And so fare filing in the world of a fare filing is just this specific price point with this specific rule, that's evolving already. And I think that's going to continue to evolve. But there is still value in what it provides, how much of it will still exist and how it evolves, I think it's a big question. And the other question is how does AI fit into all this too? How is that going to change the way we want to create the offers and the way we want to create the definition of that product or the contract, like you mentioned?  

Melanie: Thank you. So you did mention interoperability, which is a subject that is near and dear to us. And as an industry, I think we can agree that interoperability is important. We know that as each airline takes its path on dynamic offers journey that you're not doing this in a void. You still need to interact with partners who may be on a different path and you need to remain interoperable with them. You still need to feed content to systems that may be requiring dynamic content, traditional content, a mix of traditional and dynamic content. You may need to be working with partners who have different third-party systems who require, you know, their own set of content. So that interoperability is going to be important. And also not only for your partners, but also we know that it kind of lends itself into the requirement for modularity where we can move into a more modular framework.  

So with that in mind, I wanted to know if you could just share any insights in terms of interoperability in what works well, where are there challenges today, and where can ATPCO help resolve some of those challenges? And I'll start with Kevin this time.  

Kevin: I think ATPCO does really well with tickets, E-tickets, exchanges, how they work with airlines and partners is really great. I think ancillary is not so much and brands, and I bring two aspects to that.  

One is recording what a customer actually purchased as opposed to what they shopped and saw, and then telling the partner airline what one airline sold to make sure they can deliver it. I think those are two big gaps that need to get better. And I think part of offer and order is making that better. But I still think there's room between now and then to do that space better.  

Melanie: Thank you. Marcello.  

Marcello: You said a lot of them and I agree, but also think as we talk about the future, it's really like some, I don't want to use the word standardized, but it's almost standardized product definition and attributes. Having that ability to make these things easier can also make it easier to communicate with partners because right now there's a lot of one to one, right, when you're talking about interoperability. And part of it's a lot of, like, how do we figure out your very specific thing and my very specific thing on some of those systems. And so some level of framework that can be used I think is helpful, especially to your point in the ancillary space.  

And I think that's where and we talked about modular services too, of having things that oh, this is a service that the entire industry can use for things that everybody is going to have to do anyways. That accelerates the ability to innovate. Because you're not, if you have multiple partners and a lot of us have multiple partners, you're no longer constrained by now we have to figure out with each partner the right way to be able to implement an innovation. You can think about how do we implement an innovation together faster so that the experience for the customer is consistent across those partnerships and that you can build those things together.  

Melanie: And no more, we don't need to build bilateral connections and bilateral solutions. We said something yesterday, if standards would exist to serve the industry, and then you can build all of your proprietary bells and whistles, so to speak, on top of that. Harald, do you have some insights for us on interoperability?  

Harald: Well, not really much to add to the colleagues, but I think interoperability, we'll need a lot of translation between partners and of course, if you have a standardized language that reduces the number of translation points and adjustments that you need to do. So I'm a big fan of standards and having a joint approach on what you're talking about joint definitions, joint content, doesn't have to be the exact permutation of that content. But if you have the same understanding on what does it mean, rebooking, then I think that's very helpful.  

Melanie: OK, thank you. All right, so you've mentioned some barriers to adoption, but I just want to kind of do a quick round on, if you had to choose, what's the one biggest barrier to moving forward with dynamic offers? What would you pick as the number one? I'll start with Kevin again, number one barrier to moving forward.  

Kevin: Working with your partners.  

Melanie: OK, Marcello.  

Marcello: He took working with the partners. So I'll take servicing. Like making sure that you are consistently distributing and servicing your products in different channels.  

Melanie: Harald, what's the number one barrier?  

Harald: I would say quality management. That's one of the biggest challenges I would say in a more automated way. You have lots of permutations and combinations and sometimes really hard to test all that before things go live and before they're out. So I think quality management and verifying what the intelligence does is also a big challenge.  

Melanie: So the biggest barriers are interline, servicing, and ensuring you have the quality management in place. All right, what would be an accelerator? So I'll start with Marcello. What would accelerate your path forward?  

Marcello: I think an accelerator and a disruptor is going to be agentic AI and the way customers shop is going to be different in that world. And I think that's going to be an accelerator, but it is also potential disruptor in a way that could be challenging in terms of consistent experience.  

Melanie: It's both an accelerator and a disruptor. Yeah.

Marcello: Not a barrier. It will move forward, but with some disruption.  

Kevin: And I'll build off that and say I'm not sure how much we have to standardize if agents are really good. They can figure out what is the characteristic on Delta versus Air Canada and explain to a customer that you bought the same thing. They call it differently and it looks different, but effectively it's the same thing and bridge that gap for us.  

Melanie: What's an accelerator?  

Harald: To me, like I said before, the standards and the same definitions and same description of single items that they are seeing in the same way, because then everything works together and matches together.  

Melanie: Thank you. So I think we can agree though that AI is definitely going to help accelerate, maybe disrupt, but ultimately accelerate our path forward and we need standards in place to ensure that quality and consistency.  

OK, Maybe a follow up to, we also hear that there's other barriers in the shifting role of the pricing analyst or internally many, many roles will shift. You might have product management happening at different places in your organization. The role of the pricing analyst is just going to shift. They might no longer be managing fares. They have to now consider product profitability. Can you talk to us a little bit about that, Marcello, and how, how that?  

Marcello: I think a lot of that is not happening. It's already happened. It is still changing. But 10-15 years ago, the role of a pricing analyst was very much, hey, I get my transmission, the fares have coming. I have to decide which fares I need to change. With automation a lot of that is now being done by the systems, not by the analysts. And so the role of the analyst has shifted and it's going to continue to shift less into managing the inputs and the fares, but more into managing performance and offers. And offers doesn't mean just prices. It means what type of products do we want to offer, what type of bundle do we want to offer, what behaviors on the market and then what am I trying to accomplish in the market, right. And the performance I'm trying to drive. The role of pricing historically was very, is almost data entry a little bit. It's a lot more strategic in that world because the automation has enabled that. I think it's going to continue to evolve, especially as the product offerings and the bundles grow. More focus needs to be on that. But I think the role of a pricing analyst, at least that's what we've seen, has already transformed significantly in the last 10 years and automation is a big driver of that.  

Melanie: Kevin?  

Kevin: Yeah, I would agree with that. When I was pricing, the whole goal was just to find the fares and provide fuel for the demand engine. And now increasingly pricing managers and pricing analysts are trying to find the optimal price and steer the system a bit more, which is encouraging. It's really good to see, but it's a big change and it's a different mindset and it's a different skill set that pricing needs than it did before.  

Melanie: Thank you. OK. I see we do have some audience questions. So I do want to take a little bit of time and address those, a few of those if we could.  

The first question we have is, should we rebrand fare filing to product filing to signal a change? So does anyone want to address that?  

Kevin: I'm too old, I'm going to stick with fare filing, sorry.  

Marcello: I think there are two things right now, right. But yeah, I think we're used to saying fare filing. I think that still exists. Whether product filing is the same thing or or something different rather than rebrand, what does product filing mean? Yeah.

Harald: I clearly say yes because when I look at my workload right now, most of the work is defining the products and the properties of the product in the rules and in the conditions. And like I said before, that's the thing that will last, move over to the new world. And so I would clearly say yes.  

Melanie: OK.  

Kevin: Actually, if I could just build on that, it's really interesting what you said because fare filing is mostly automation now, whereas the design of what the products and the fare basis code represent is more product filing. So I might take that one back actually.  

Melanie: All right. OK. Next one, to Air Canada's point, do you see interest in figuring out optimal pricing for interline? Fascinating challenge. Not too many visible progress signals at the industry level. Would love to hear more. So that's to you, Kevin.  

Kevin: That's a complicated answer. When you think about bid prices and optimizing O&D flows and what traditional RM systems try to do. It's a different solution analysis between JV partners and who's trying to optimize the revenue and what the right solution is. So yes, I would love to have a better solution for that, but I think it's complicated. It depends on how integrated you are with your JV partner and especially how much you're doing revenue sharing as to how that question should be answered.  

Melanie: Marcello, did you want to add anything to that or?  

Marcello: Always interested in optimizing, but to your point, the challenge is how.  

Kevin: Yeah.  

Melanie: Thank you. All right. How can AI be leveraged to proactively audit route data and flag critical gaps in fare filings? For instance, identifying an omitted economy fare on a high demand origin/destination pair.  

Marcello: I think you can do that even without AI, right? That you can build automation that audits those things. What where AI can help, is one of the things AI is good at is patterns and understanding patterns and other things that are off patterns,  

But you also have to train the AI. So really a lot of the idea that the AI is just going to figure it out for you, it's probably not quite right. You're going to have to think about how do you train the AI to find the type of things you're looking for? But, and we've seen that in some of the work we're doing, the AI can help you find things that are potentially missing. And the big benefits of AI in the space are scale and speed, right? And so it's not so much that the AI is going to do something that an analyst couldn't do, is that the AI can do it faster and the AI can do it as much broader scale when you have hundreds of thousands of O&Ds and try to find those optimal smaller things that if you had a million analysts, you would be able to do. But none of us have a million analysts and it would take a lot of time to train them.  

Melanie: Any other comments on that?  

Kevin: I think the classic use case of airfares, you can apply AI against your bookings in real time and start to see surges a bit faster. But then you can spend your whole day looking for surges and spend a lot of time getting worried about things. So it's a double-edged sword there.  

Melanie: Thank you. OK. Next question, how do you link A/B pricing experiments to measurable commercial outcomes such as incremental revenue or conversion uplift while controlling for seasonality and external demand shocks?  

Marcello: With extreme difficulty.  

Kevin: Well done.  

Marcello: Look, that's the Holy Grail. Anyone who can design the perfect A/B test experiments like, congratulations, you've just won the industry. It's the same one when people ask, can you predict the price of fuel? I would be living on the boat. It's complicated.  

For me it's a mix of two things. It is a mix of business knowledge and intelligence in designing your A/B groups, right to account for those things. And it's not something you can just do, and data science, which can help with counterfactual models and with like, like looking at the patterns, I'll find good groups. But it's a mix of both. Neither does it perfectly on its own. And honestly, even combining both, it's really hard to do, but it's important. It's just very, very complex. There's always something different.  

When I was a student, one of my economics professors said economists are always right, because every economic analysis is done reasoning that all other things are equal. So if you were wrong, it's because the other things were not equal. Well, in our world, none of the other things are ever equal.  

Kevin: I would suggest you look at different areas. We spent a lot of time optimizing pricing and then a lot of time optimizing ancillaries and then we realized that we hadn't done a lot of optimization for branded upsell, and that was a big opportunity and we just hadn't spent time on it. So I think there is a granularity level where you go down the hole and you're not getting any more money. And if you look somewhere else, there's low hanging fruit in different areas.  

Melanie: Thank you. All right, we'll do, I think one more question. Many airlines and stakeholders talk about standards, but then each party wants to change those standards. How to overcome this challenge?  

Marcello: That's a question for you, yeah.  

Kevin: That's a good one.  

Harald: Maybe I just jump in on that because I think when we talk about standards, we always think that's the one solution with all attributes according to that, and that never fits any participant in the market. So I think we need to come more to where we have different variations or permutations and then take them as one variant to choose from rather than saying this is one standard and you need to change that standard all the time, OK.  

Melanie: Thank you. And I'll just kind of give a quick from, you know from ATPCO as we look at the standards we're creating, we are, moving into the future, we're looking to enable some flexibility so that that airlines do have a choice and adhering to some industry set standards and then to enabling some bilateral flexibility that they can use with their partners or their providers. But we also look to understand if there are capabilities that go beyond what is supported in the standards and we'd like to understand what those expanded capabilities are and build out standards to support the additional capabilities as well. So that we have all flavors, if you will.  

But with that said, we are running close to the end of time. So I just want to just take a moment for each of you to say, if you had one thing you wanted to leave with the audience today, one comment on the path to dynamic offers, what would that be? And I'll start Marcello.  

Marcello: When I started in revenue management 12 years ago, one thing that they told me is the only constant in this business is change. And I think the next five years are going to be that on steroids. And I think it's important to remember that it could be fun too. And we should treat it as not just all, all of this work that we have to figure out, but also like what does this enable? What can we do with this? I think it's a lot of fun.

Melanie:  Thank you. Kevin?  

Kevin: I think we've built up a really complicated pricing structure and that's great. It preserves a lot of revenue. But if we're going to work in the future, it has to be simpler for customers.  

Melanie: Harald.  

Harald: Yeah. My message is fare filing will stay, will be there, It will be the foundation for everything to come and it will be transformed from fare filing to offer data management.  

Melanie: With that said, I want to thank you all very much for joining us. I hope you all found this insightful as you start your path to dynamic offers or you continue your path to dynamic offers. So thank you very much.  

Kevin: Thanks.  

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